You will find a poll posted to the left. Tammy was interested in what the group thought about which level to race TQ.
To answer a few of the questions asked in the comments section: Jumping to a higher class level would reduce the chance of a claim. If you raced for $15,000NW3 the chance of getting claimed is very low. And if someone wanted to give you $15,000 for TQ I would take it and run.
With that jump in class comes more purse money: $10,500 compared to $7,500. That also attracts tougher company. Allowance company has much more money but you would run into the best horses here.
The question of turf was raised. We don’t see many conditioned (NW3) races on the grass so you would have to face very good fillies on the lawn. There is no advantage to racing against the boys either as the field is deeper and the purse money is the same.
The thought of Claiming Crown is enticing. Anytime you win two in a row like that you think of bigger things. I just don’t think she would be able to handle the pace demand and class of the Claiming Crown. We have not seen her winning Beyer yet but it would need to be on the 80s to compete in Claiming Crown.
In the end it really should be Tammy’s decision but she understands that you don’t want to lose your horse right now. Everyone got into this group to have some fun and learn about ownership. I think we have accomplished the fun part of the equation already. We still have a lot to learn.
So the options seem to be:
$7,500 claiming non winners of 3 lifetime
$15,000 claiming non winners of 3 lifetime
Great comments Jeff. I voted for the 15000 but would be fine with Allowance (of course). On paper she was clearly the class of the race and all the track handicappers and bettor seems to agree with that. I think we try a higher level and see what happens.But in the end we all need to trust that Tammy will do what is best. It is CLEAR that she knows what she is doing!!!!
Ultimately I think we should let our trainer guide us to the best next available race for the TQ to run comfortably but competitively. I voted for staying in the 7500 but I'm fine with the 15000 if it isn't too big or early of a move. I don't see going allowance race now. TQ has given us a lot of excitement as rookie owners, but she has been in little races and we should be realistic about her potential this early in the process. A trainer knows best in general, and Tammy knows TQ much better than we do, so I say take the poll for curiosity/educational purposes but do what Tammy recommends.ko
I vote for the 15K as well, although looking back at her time of 1:13.00, can she make the money? Would love to hear in from Jose too. Seems like he needs another 1-2 seconds from her like he did Sunday with "Out of Service". Like Ron J says, Tammy will know best. Rest up TQ & dream of seeing your friends in the winners circle again! Till then, see you all trackside…
For anyone interested, her Beyer for the last race was 54.Seems logical to me to try her at the next level to test her out there.
I agree that it should be Tammy's decision, I voted for the bump up in class but would not want to test TQ's spirit if it was too much too soon! The final choice should be what's best for TQ. Janet
I would say we try the 15k Claimer but then drop back down and run with the other 7500 dollar claimers if she does not compete. And if she does get claimed then she gets claimed. It would be great to see TQ runsgreat against the 15k dollar claimers but how disapointed will most everyone be if she comes in dead last 3 furlongs back? I think she is running against horses that are about the same caliber as her right now but it would never hurt to try and move up.
We would be fine with the bump to 15000 and we also agree with everyone that has posted so far regarding Tammy making the final decision. She's the one that has been working with TQ and she would be the most qualified to put her in the appropriate race. Either way – What a fun and exciting time to see her run…..Thanks to Tammy, Jose and Jeff for an awesome adventure.
Although we all are having alot of fun and I have no doubt this will continue, we still need to keep in mind this is a partnership that will be dissolving at the end of the summer. Decisions we make in the next three months should be made with this in mind. According to my calculations, the partnership (or should I say the partners who each contributed $250) will breakeven at the end of the summer if it has at least $16,667 in cash on hand. I realize $15,600 was contributed to the partnership, however, the partner who contributed $600 was given a 10% stake. A goodwill gesture on our part for us being able to use his license and him assuming the risk once the partnership is dissolved. As mentioned previously, Tammy's filly "Out of Service" won at the $15K claim level on 5/31 with a time of 1:11.25 over 6 furlongs. Keep in mind there were no race restrictions (i.e. NW3, etc) on this race. Usually an "open" race like this is typically more competive then any other race at that particular class level since these horses have won many times. At a $15K NW3 level, we would more likely face a little easier competition then what "Out of Service" beat. Even though TQ ran 1.13.00 in her last race, she did so after running her fastest race in her career. I don't think a 1.11.25 will be needed to score a 1st or 2nd position at a 15K claim nw3 level. Plus, TQ is only 3 years old and has only raced 9 times in her career. There is a good chance she will improve on her speed figures especially under Tammy. A second place finish in a $15K claim race is equal to a first place finish in a $7.5K claim race. If she does take a step up in class, would an extra week of rest allow for maximum effort and better deal with a potential quicker pace?? I am sure we would see a TQ workout if this were the case. Can you enter a horse in two races if you are still uncertain at the time which race you would like to run in? It looks like to me TQ could be a good candidate to run at 6 1/2 furlongs due to her running style. Going up in class if that what Tammy decides, the pace will be a little quicker and TQ will need to use a little more energy to stay near the leaders due to the CBY speed bias. With the added distance, this may allow her and Jose to stay back a little more knowing they have the extra distance.Alot of this depends on what the new condition book looks like and if the $15K race can be filled. Of course Tammy knows her best. Let's put TQ in the best spot that will give her the best opportunity to finish 1st or 2nd. Look forward to hearing Tammy's decision. GO TQ!Ryan
As Ryan pointed out, this is a learning opportunity. I am not great with numbers, so at the level in which TQ is winning, would we be in a position to break even at the end of the year? Would we profit? Or, would we need to jump in class to stay in the black.I ask because I would like to use this experience as a road map for future horse ownership. I would like to fully understand the profit, loss, risk and planning that goes into horse ownership and the racing game. For learning purposes, would this decision be any different if TQ were owned by one person? How does this affect what TQ would otherwise do next year?Any thoughts by anyone would be helpful. Otherwise, I am absolutely supportive of what Tammy or the group decides.
The purse for the $7,500 level is $7,500 but for the $15,000 level it is $10,500. So the claiming price doubles but the purse does not.Whne the May bills arrive we will summarize the account. But just a rough look at things: $50 per day for training over four months is about $6,000. There are also vet bills to cover for race day medications and supplements. Thus far TQ has made just about enough to cover all those bills. The purchase price of the filly was $6000. Selling her at the end of the meet will return some of the price but if she runs through her conditions she probably has a lower value. That you won't know until later.If she can continue to run well you could expect to break even.As I said before, and the reality of owning cheaper claimers makes it very evident, it is tough to make money owning horses. Winning two races right out of the gate is unbelievable. Look at horses running now that went and entire year without a win. The cheaper the horse the lower the purse. Stakes horses eat just as well as claimers however.The risk in this business is always high. Every time you send your horse to the track it could be the last. Injuries happen that delay or end a career.You will see plenty of horses that run over their heads because the owner is afraid to lose them via a claim. Those horses rarely win. They may nibble away at the purses but the bills keep coming. But there is nothing wrong with trying a higher level with a filly like this. She does have some upside.jm
I want to first thank you again Jeff, for arranging this opportunity, it has been a great experience so far. It is unfortunate, though certainly understandable from the Canterbury perspective, that the legalities have to come into play. Reading over your email, and all of the additional commentary here, there are 2 questions that come to my mind: You mention 4 months of training being in the neighborhood of $6000. Is TQ really trained on a daily basis, or are we really billed on a daily basis?? I only ask because in the last account summary I recall there being only 4 billed days of training, for $200. And re the new "Club" I was just curious as to what Barrys standing is then?? His assistance in the ownership and licensing is of course absolutely appreciated, this is more idle curiousity then anything. A previous comment mentioned him having a 10% stake in the whole matter, is that the case, or is that 10% of the ultimate sale/claim price of TQ? Or, is he now limited to recieving the return of his $600 and no more also?? Thanks again Jeff…..
Good questions. Trainers charge a per day fee. In this case $50 per day. We get billed monthly. It is always important to ask your trainer about the 'day rate' when looking for someone to handle your horse. If the rate is well below the going rate I would suggest caution. Properly taking care of race horses takes a certain level of manpower. You want a trainer with good help. So the $200 was for the final four days of April.Barry is the 10% licensed owner. For our purposes if there were somehow profits, he is one of 61 in the group.Hope that answers those questions. As for the new paperwork, it really doesn't change anything. I am thrilled for all of you that things have gone as well as they have. Hoping for a one win was in the realm of possibility. I think what you are involved with here can serve as a template for others that want to create ownership groups that make economic sense. It really isn't about making money, it is the thrill of owning and racing a horse whether you have 100% or are one of 61. You all are winners!jm
Jeff,I myself, do not care if I make a dime in this whole experience…I have enjoyed this whole journey and it has been worth every single penny! TQ is a dream of a lifetime for me! Janet
Tammy,Do you have any thoughts about going longer? She closes like fright train and wonder if she would be even better at 6 1/2 or a mile? I voted $7.5K but trully believe this should all be up to you. WE'VE GOT THE BEST TRAINER ON THE GROUNDS!John
Any news on when you think TQ will race again? Has a decision been made on the type of race we are going for?